[spoiler] Lost Saison 6.

[Revanche]

Quelqu'un de Bad Robot donne son explication sur le show :

[spoiler="toute la vérité sur Lost"]Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Source: [URL="http://www.spoilertv.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=19342&start=0"]SpoilerTV[/URL][/spoiler]

In english however...

[mouahahah]

A peu de choses près (je pense par exemple que la DHARMA est venu sur l'île pour l'étudier et que ça n'a rien à voir avec Jacob, mais ça peut porter à débat, un débat pas très intéressant d'ailleurs) je suis d'accord avec ça.

[Blastalx]

Personnellement je trouve qu'on s'est bien fait rouler dans la farine.
Ce qui nous a tenu en haleine durant ces 6 saisons, ce sont tous ces mystères et la perspective d'avoir justement des réponses au fil des épisodes.

J'estime que les auteurs ont fait preuve d'un manque de respect du public.
Cette fin est facile et pas très intéressante intéressante (et je n'évoque pas le happy-end religieux qui me gonfle, mais ça c'est subjectif).

Non, malgré tout l'affection que je portais à cette série, c'est le sentiment de vaste escroquerie qui prédomine.

[Revanche]

Voilà t'as raison c'est nul. Suivant.

[Mast]

Ouais, moi aussi je pense que c'est nul parce que je sais toujours pas qui est le plus gros entre Hurley et le Smoke Monster.

[Satanisapunkrocker]

Moi aussi je pense que c'était nul et qu'ils nous ont volé 6 années de nos vies. Bande de voleurs de scénaristes ! Z'auriez du nous en voler au moins 2 de plus !

[Blastalx]

Sans dire que c'est nul, c'est quand même décevant.

Mais oui 2 saisons de plus ça m'aurait pas dérangé :siffle:

[Fred le mallrat]

Thx Rev' pour le lien
Perso j ai beaucoup aimé la fin.
J ai pas eu les reponses que j attendais mais je crois que si je les avais eu j aurai moins apprécié quelque part..

[Satanisapunkrocker]

Bah, pff, finalement, bcp de chose en background, en mythologie et autre subplot. J'ai pas l'impression qu'on se soit foutu de moi. Oui j'aimais et j'aime toujours ces mystères, mais, et comme dans toutes les séries que je regarde, ce qui m'intéresse ce sont les personnages, leur personnalité, leurs interactions, leur façon de voir les choses. Ça me rappelle la fin de la série évangélion. Tout le monde avait crié au scandale, que Hano s'était foutu de la gueule de tout le monde, mais, à l'époque, c'était déjà ça : des personnages, des rencontres, des échanges, des émotions. Il racontait leurs histoires. Le reste, ce n'était que du décors. Et à la fin de la série, pof, pas de réponses aux questions posées... Bon après y'a eu les films et leur vision apocalyptique, mais bref. Moi je ne vois aucun foutage de gueule, au contraire. Les showrunner ne nous ont pas imposé leur vision de la série, une vision simple, bete et avec un seul degrès de lecture. Non, au contraire, nous ont laissé à nous, les vrais fans, de donner notre vision et notre interprétation de ce qui est, pour moi et certainement pas mal d'entre vous, un des meilleurs show jamais vu à la télé. De toute façon avec lost j'ai jamais étais objectif XD

[emix6]

J'ai beaucoup pleuré à cet épisode. Ils vont tous énormément me manquer. Je suis en soi satisfait de ce dernier épisode. Les réponses aux différents mystères ne sont pas donnés et j'en suis soulagé: c'était ma plus grosse appréhension que les scénaristes flinguent tout en clôturant les interprétations multiples.
LOST n'est finalement qu'une magnifique métaphore sur le communauté et les croyances qui la soudent ( petit bémol au passage sur la -trop- forte dimension chrétienne malgré le vitrail représentant toutes les croyances ).

[mouahahah]

Je suis d'accord ça m'a beaucoup fait penser à Evangelion aussi. Surtout pour le message adressé aux otakus totalement dingos et très lisible : you have to let go now. Really. For you own sake!

[Zen arcade]

[QUOTE=mouahahah;1045352]Je suis d'accord ça m'a beaucoup fait penser à Evangelion aussi. Surtout pour le message adressé aux otakus totalement dingos et très lisible : you have to let go now. Really. For you own sake![/QUOTE]

Tu veux dire que Lost, c'est aussi de la poudre de perlimpimpin mystico-portesouvertes pour handicapés de la life ?
Ouf, j'ai bien fait de ne pas regarder, alors.

[gourvy]

[QUOTE=Zen arcade;1045358]Tu veux dire que Lost, c'est aussi de la poudre de perlimpimpin mystico-portesouvertes pour handicapés de la life ?
Ouf, j'ai bien fait de ne pas regarder, alors.[/QUOTE]

Tu ne regardes pas Lost, mais tu suis et tu postes sur le fil de discussion lié à cette série. cela montre un certain intérêt

[mouahahah]

[QUOTE=Zen arcade;1045358]Tu veux dire que Lost, c'est aussi de la poudre de perlimpimpin mystico-portesouvertes pour handicapés de la life ?
Ouf, j'ai bien fait de ne pas regarder, alors.[/QUOTE]

Maintenant que tu le dis oui. Mais moi je vois que des choses positives dans ce que tu viens de dire.

Non mais sinon je parlais avant tout de la fin. Cette idée que le fan doit décrocher et laisser la série s'en aller. Parce que les névrosés qui arracheraient des gorges avec les dents pour qu'on donne des réponses à leurs questions il y en avait autant dans Lost que dans Evangelion.

[Blastalx]

[quote=mouahahah;1045373]Parce que les névrosés qui arracheraient des gorges avec les dents pour qu'on donne des réponses à leurs questions il y en avait autant dans Lost que dans Evangelion.[/quote]

De mon point de vue, le fond de commerce de cette série était tous les trucs mystérieux qui s'y passait.
Quand une entreprise ferme, elle doit payer ses dettes. Les dettes de Lost sont les questions provoquées par ces mystères.
Sans avoir une explication pragmatique sur le pourquoi de la couleur du slip de Jacob, j'aurai aimé avoir quand même quelques éclaircissement sur l'Ile.

De toute façon c'est fait, il va juste falloir qu'on se trouve une autre série.

Et niveau névrose ça va merci :siffle: